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	<title>The Ink &#187; Debate</title>
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		<title>LIVE BLOGGING: Duking it out with Dean Malkiel, Whig-Clio style</title>
		<link>http://www.universitypressclub.com/archive/2009/12/duking-it-out-with-dean-malkiel-whig-clio-style/</link>
		<comments>http://www.universitypressclub.com/archive/2009/12/duking-it-out-with-dean-malkiel-whig-clio-style/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 01:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Giri Nathan</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Goings On]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[anger]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Dean Malkiel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Debate]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[grade deflation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Nancy Malkiel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[sadness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Whig-Clio]]></category>

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<p><em><strong>[Update 2/7/10: Here's a <a href="http://paw.princeton.edu/issues/2010/02/03/pages/5565/index.xml">write-up of the event</a> in the PAW --BKN]</strong></em></p>
<p>For the first time since 2006, Dean of the College Nancy Malkiel&#8211; architect of the ever-popular <strong>grade deflation</strong> policy&#8211; will be gracing the <strong>Whig-Clio Senate Debate</strong> to defend her brainchild. Hordes of deflatees await their chance to duke it out in a public forum.</p>
<p>Whig Hall Senate Chamber is about to get <em>heated</em>.</p>
<p>And I, your humble Giri Nathan, will be your eyes and ears. Behold.</p>
<p><strong>8:35 PM</strong></p>
<p>100+ students have packed into the chamber like so many dour, grade-deflated sardines. Some of said sardines are attired in snazzy suits. These are the debaters. The battle has yet to begin.</p>
<p><span id="more-2905"></span></p>
<p><strong>8:37</strong></p>
<p>Whig-Clio President Brian Stephan introduces Dean Malkiel. He urges eager participation and proper parlimentary courtesy (read: no sleeping, no rioting). Charlie Metzger then provides a brief history of the Whig-Clio and explains the format. Just some boring adminstrative stuff before things get fiery.</p>
<p><strong>8:41</strong></p>
<p>Jay Parikh explains that clapping is out, &#8220;hear hear&#8221; (accompanied by hearty thigh-slapping) is in. Stephan calls the house to order.</p>
<p><strong>8:42</strong></p>
<p>Malkiel takes the stage. She then explains her position: &#8220;I agreed to come to provide some factual information at the outset [...] and if it&#8217;s useful, I will then answer questions. I&#8217;m not debating.&#8221;</p>
<p><em>Why deflate, dear Dean?</em> She says:</p>
<p>1. Fairness. Grading across departments should be standardized for the sake of &#8220;evenhandedness.&#8221;</p>
<p>2. Truly recognizing the best. &#8220;There should be clear distinctions between a student&#8217;s good work and really outstanding work.&#8221;</p>
<p>Origin story: The policy was created when chairs of the academic departments came to her &#8220;to hold all of the departments to the same standard,&#8221;she said. Nobody had any interest in &#8220;putting our students in jeopardy,&#8221; she said.</p>
<p>&#8220;Princeton students continue to be highly sucessful now under the grading policy as they were before the policy was implemented,&#8221; said Malkiel.<!--more--></p>
<p><strong>8:52</strong></p>
<p>&#8220;Why haven&#8217;t the other Ivies followed suit? This is hard work,&#8221; said Malkiel. &#8220;It takes time. A dean can&#8217;t just say, &#8216;Princeton has a good idea, we&#8217;re going to do it too.&#8217; Every dean has to work through his or her own faculty,&#8221;she continued.</p>
<p><strong>8:54</strong></p>
<p>Stephan thanks the Dean. Dan Rauch has six minutes to address the Chamber. He argues against grade deflation.</p>
<p>His points:</p>
<p>1. People here are always striving toward perfection; we don&#8217;t need the further incentive of grade deflation. (True fact: you can deflate our grades, but it&#8217;s tougher still to deflate our egos.)</p>
<p>2. The playing field isn&#8217;t getting any more even. The disparity between the highest and lowest departments (sociology and physics) isn&#8217;t getting smaller in any significant way: a mere 0.04 on the ol&#8217; GPA.</p>
<p>3. Students are scared away by grade deflation. &#8220;We lose as a university,&#8221; said Rauch.</p>
<p>4. Hard GPA cut-offs. Fellowships &amp; jobs are more than happy to screw us over no matter how eloquent that little explanatory letter is.</p>
<p><strong>9:01</strong></p>
<p>Jonathan Sarnoff fires back.</p>
<p>1. Grading standards <em>do</em> need equalizing.</p>
<p>2. The people that matter (&#8221;Harvard Law, Goldman Sachs&#8221;) know about grade deflation.</p>
<p>3. The people that matter care about way more than just grades.</p>
<p><strong>9:07</strong></p>
<p>And now, it&#8217;s fair game: anyone can ask questions.</p>
<p>David Christie opposes it. &#8220;Economics says: institutions don&#8217;t have interests, people do. [...] The people that are supposed to be benefiting from this don&#8217;t.&#8221; It restricts intellectual exploration.</p>
<p>Michael Skiles addresses the chair as &#8220;your Majesty.&#8221; People laugh.</p>
<p>&#8220;65% of the students in the nation&#8217;s best university are not producing great work? I simply do not believe this,&#8221; he says.</p>
<p><strong>9:14</strong></p>
<p>Tiernan Kane wants to know what makes an &#8220;A.&#8221;</p>
<p>Malkiel: Faculty members need to decide what makes an A. If we didn&#8217;t give them the choice, &#8220;they wouldn&#8217;t be very happy, and it wouldn&#8217;t be appropriate.&#8221; It is up to the &#8220;pedagogical judgment&#8221; of each individual faculty member.</p>
<p><strong>9:17</strong></p>
<p>A student asks where the &#8220;barriers&#8221; are drawn. Why set the notorious 35% &#8220;A&#8221; standard?</p>
<p>Malkiel: &#8220;A quarter of the departments were already doing that, it seemed reasonable to have the other departments follow suit. [ ... ] That&#8217;s where the 35% came from.&#8221;</p>
<p><strong>9:19</strong></p>
<p>A student is concerned: we&#8217;re the only school getting owned by a formal grade deflation policy. At the end of the day, we&#8217;re suffering. How do you expect important people (jobs, fellowships) to evaluate these grades correctly?</p>
<p>Malkiel: We&#8217;re in constant dialogue with them. And there&#8217;s absolutely no evidence that Princeton students are suffering. &#8220;There are still hundreds and hundreds of Princeton students with 3.5&#8217;s and above. There are slightly fewer, but there are still hundreds.&#8221;</p>
<p><strong>9:22</strong></p>
<p>A student is concerned about apathy: students are willing to settle for the &#8220;gentleman&#8217;s B+&#8221; because they don&#8217;t seriously foresee getting A-range grades. They get lazy.</p>
<p>Malkiel: A student told me that his roommate had a 3.49 and was thus narrowly missing a job opportunity he was considering. &#8220;I said: &#8216;A 3.49 rounds to a 3.5. No one said you have to use two decimal places.&#8221; Laughs ensue.</p>
<p><strong>9:26</strong></p>
<p>Kamron Saniee asks: Why is uniformity among departments so hard to achieve, and why is it so important?</p>
<p>Malkiel: &#8220;You shouldn&#8217;t have some departments where (as used to be the case) you walk through the door, and you get an A.&#8221;</p>
<p><strong>9:28</strong></p>
<p>A student says: The rubric for grading standards is fuzzy, and not every faculty member follows it to a T. Also, we have to think relative to other institutions. What was going through Dean Malkiel&#8217;s mind when she instituted this policy, knowing about the difficulty of collective action. Was there optimism, hope? And based on what?</p>
<p>Malkiel says: &#8220;We knew this would put us in the spotlight, and we were ready to bear that. [ ... ] We hoped that, when we showed other institutions that it was possible to develop more responsible grading practices, they would follow suit. But we didn&#8217;t predicate our decision on the expectation that they would follow suit.&#8221;</p>
<p><strong>9:34</strong></p>
<p>Someone in the audience makes a weird noise. It appears to be unintentional. He looks embarrassed.</p>
<p><strong>9:36</strong></p>
<p>&#8220;The sort of rage that can get 150 people out on a Wednesday night is the sort of rage that should not be ignored.&#8221;</p>
<p>- Dan Rauch</p>
<p><strong>9:37</strong></p>
<p>A student says: I understand what the theoretical benefits of grade deflation are. But what are the tangible benefits?</p>
<p>Malkiel: Many departments have settled down to reasonable grading standards.</p>
<p><strong>9:41</strong></p>
<p>A student spits hot fire: &#8220;The people with 3.5&#8217;s aren&#8217;t the sort of people that are going to be getting those highly competitive fellowships anyway.&#8221; He is met with scattered hear hear&#8217;s and a single hiss.</p>
<p><strong>9: 43</strong></p>
<p>Another student says: Because the standards have changed for us, it&#8217;s impossible to make rational comparisons with the other peer institutions that we love (love, love, love) to measure ourselves against. &#8220;It&#8217;s as if Princeton is pretending to speak English, but has changed the meaning of all the words.&#8221; Raucous signs of approval&#8211; that is, as raucous as Whig-Clio can get.</p>
<p><strong>9:48</strong></p>
<p>A senior says: The only concrete evidence in this argument, for or against grade deflation? The fact that all love to complain about it.</p>
<p><strong>9:51</strong></p>
<p>Stephan puts an end to the student comments. Dan May speaks.</p>
<p>&#8220;The point is to educate students.&#8221; Grade deflation does so in these ways:</p>
<p>1. &#8220;It encourages students to work harder.&#8221;</p>
<p>2. It needs to be fair. He points out an error in the opposition&#8217;s analysis. Look for GPA change within a department, not between departments.</p>
<p><strong>9:56</strong></p>
<p>Zayn Siddique concludes for the opposition: He points out a key distinction between the sciences (plenty of big lectures) and humanities. &#8220;It should come out as no surprise that they can&#8217;t field enough large lecture classes to balance it out.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;There are internal harms. The harms of students feeling pressure. Mutual discussion, collaboration are in danger. More gamesmanship. More course selection based on where the good grades can be found,&#8221; he said.</p>
<p><strong>10:00</strong></p>
<p>And that&#8217;s a wrap. Voting and food.</p>
<p><strong>10:05</strong></p>
<p>The vote comes in.</p>
<p>61 &#8211; 9 against grade deflation. Shocker.</p>
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